"BJL" (simplifyandaddlightness)
01/18/2018 at 20:38 • Filed to: None
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"BJL" (simplifyandaddlightness)
01/18/2018 at 20:38 • Filed to: None | 1
| 24 |
Well, you always hear it. You probably say it. But who is actually willing to do something about it?
New cars have everything from remote start, to touch screens, to massage chairs and more. I for one, would actually prefer not to get those options as I don’t see the practicality, personally. A lot of people are the same way. However, in order to get certain performance options, certain configurations and price brackets make you get some stuff you might not want in order to get others you do want.
Follow my theory. A small business could try to run, say, a line of used and restored trucks. For arguement, let’s go with squarebody chevy trucks. With procurement being really the only large barrier, a company could blast out a decent truck with renovated interior, new engine (not hipo), trans, and sell it for 30k. (Focus a lot on sound deadening too, to improve perceived value) The small business could then try to compete with new vehicles by offering competitive warranties, as most parts suppliers warrantee parts for a few years. Perhaps even the purchase of dealership warranties could be made. Same idea for cars, of course.
The issue is dealing with dealerships. The ‘restored’ trucks would ideally have to be sold alongside the new trucks in the dealership on a ‘bought when seen’ principle, or of course ordered. Again, just to remove reasons the nay-sayers may use to make excuses.
So here, I ask what you think. How many of the bellyachers would actually be willing to ‘pay for what they want’? I have a feeling that people that complain about this just do so to complain. What about you?
Nibbles
> BJL
01/18/2018 at 20:40 |
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Yeah they’re complicated but it’s worth it. Due to the creature comforts of my mid-trim 2017 Ram, I’m pondering heated seats in my 1993 Z28
My bird IS the word
> BJL
01/18/2018 at 20:42 |
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Heated seats, backup cameras, GPS are all really nice IMO. Really when it is all said and done it doesn’t really affect my life one way or the other.
HammerheadFistpunch
> BJL
01/18/2018 at 20:42 |
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What your thinking about exists but not at new car prices. The economies of scale aren’t there. If you want a new old something... You’re going to pay for it.
Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
> BJL
01/18/2018 at 20:46 |
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I don’t really think they are. Problems are way easier to diagnose now.
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BJL
> HammerheadFistpunch
01/18/2018 at 20:47 |
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I don’t think it has much to do with economies of scale here. Large corporations have to design, coordinate, and pass their vehicles through government specs. They do all the heavy lifting.
However, I guess the major reason for the post was more to say- if you could pay the same for a simpler vehicle with same warrantee, support, and ‘quality’, would you?
The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock
> BJL
01/18/2018 at 20:47 |
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Some things are nice. Heated seats, heated steering wheels, remote start (winter yo). Messaging seats are not needed but once you use one once you wish all cars had them, that can be said for lots of overkill features.
Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch
> BJL
01/18/2018 at 20:49 |
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You don’t see the practicality until you drive something that has those features. I wish my TA had heated and cooled seats.
There are companies that build really nice classics that you can get without extra features, but I imagine they sell very few that way. FJ Company is an example: https://www.fj.co/
But labor makes this kind of stuff uneconomical for most people.
Scary__goongala!
> BJL
01/18/2018 at 20:50 |
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New cars are more complicated because there is more stuff that can malfunction. But...a lot of those problems are diagnosed now by just hooking a computer into the car’s computer. People will always complain. We all fit into a different and by that I mean small, group of car buyers. Even car enthusiasts are getting inseparable from the nice amenities that “normal” cars offer now.
for Michigan
> BJL
01/18/2018 at 20:53 |
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Funny thing, I had a similar idea just last week. Except instead of taking it from this angle, I was thinking about the practicality of restomodding old Rangers and S10's so those seven Jalops who won’t stop whining about the lack of “true” small trucks in the market have the option of a $30K thirty-year-old truck.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> BJL
01/18/2018 at 20:55 |
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It’s very much economies of scale. How much would a stamped steel panel cost if instead of making 500,000 you make 5000?
To answer your other question. No. Depending
Demon-Xanth knows how to operate a street.
> BJL
01/18/2018 at 20:57 |
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The problem exists that it costs the same to restore a Chevelle as it does to restore a Corvair. But the Corvair will never be the value of the Chevelle.
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HammerheadFistpunch
> for Michigan
01/18/2018 at 21:00 |
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What are you crazy, i want a brand new s10 for crapped out craigslist prices!
wafflesnfalafel
> BJL
01/18/2018 at 21:11 |
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Sorry to break it to you but it’s already been done - see Singer Vehicles http://singervehicledesign.com/ . And you are going to need a lot of money, (but their stuff is awesome...)
functionoverfashion
> BJL
01/18/2018 at 21:19 |
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I think anyone bellyaching seriously enough about modern cars being too complicated, will be savvy enough to find a nice example of an older vehicle in the existing private market.
This will always follow a curve, though. Example: 25 years ago, the “new cars are too complicated” crowd was lusting after carburetors, crank windows, and FM radio. Now they’ll drive a fuel-injected, air-conditioned, power-steering, power-window, power-locking... 99 Chevy pickup.
I know one of these people. He finds nice examples of older vehicles, somehow, all the time. He fixes them enough to use as daily drivers, then sells them when he finds another one. It’s funny, easily 2/3 of the 90's Fords I see around here used to be his at some point or other.
SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media
> BJL
01/18/2018 at 21:20 |
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Basic cars and light trucks exist...but not in the US market.
Take the recently updated Oz spec Mahindra Genio
These things are basic 4x2 pickups with a couple of airbags, ABS and stability control, air con, cruise control, a cd player and an illuminated ignition switch. Build quality is up there with 80s malaise. Performance is probably around that mark too with the little Euro5 compliant diesel engine (it’s got idle stop start!). And they are AU$22,000 driveaway which is about as cheap as this sort of thing gets these days.
Punters still prefer to spend an extra 5 to 10 grand for a 4x2 Triton or Hilux....even with a similar lack of features.
Truth is that there’s no margin in basic cars. So unless you are a specialist maker of basic cars and can sell a shit tonne of them (hello India, hello China) then you’d never make enough coin to keep shareholders happy.
Basic drivelines have, for good reason, largely been legislated out of existence by pollution control and fuel efficiency standards. Let alone the hunt for more horsepower.
Ssfancyfresh
> for Michigan
01/18/2018 at 21:28 |
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We can be best friends.
crowmolly
> HammerheadFistpunch
01/18/2018 at 21:43 |
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Yup. Who is making the parts? Both cost and quality are involved.
promoted by the color red
> BJL
01/18/2018 at 22:09 |
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This does exist. You’re describing a working man’s Singer. It’s a good idea, but it’s going to take lots of man-hours and skilled craftsmen to build. Once all that’s factored in, you’re looking at a minimum of high 5-figures, assuming you got decent prices on your supplies and you started with a clean truck.
In the end, you’ll get a pickup that’s thirstier and not as safe as the $40,000 Silverado the average buyer was planning on purchasing. Plus most people say they want simplicity, but they’ll put up a fight if you take away their infotainment and whatnot.
Nissan tried this with their 240Z program and it was a huge money sink...cool for enthusiasts like us, but bad business sense even for a giant conglomerate drumming up some PR.
blacktruck18
> BJL
01/18/2018 at 22:14 |
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It’s possible to get what you are talking in newer trucks. I did this search for 4x4's with a V8 and sorted by cheapest there are quite a few available in my area.
It’s possible to get them even cheaper if you don’t want 4WD. I bought a RCSB Ram 1500 Tradesman 2wd Hemi for just over 21,000 during the end of the year clearance sales in 2013.
415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
> BJL
01/18/2018 at 22:39 |
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hahahahaha, uh yeah
themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles
> BJL
01/18/2018 at 22:59 |
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Labor and materials ruin the value factor that people are very hard-edged on, but won’t budge an inch. As others have said, they want 90s simplicity in a new car.....at 90's prices without any inflation. And if you restomod a 90s vehicle then you just have a 90s vehicle. It is worth whatever the “good” value of that vehicle is. Did you spend 20k putting a whole new interior, suspension, and engine into a 1996 F-150? Great! It’s still worth 5k to most buyers if we REEEEEEALLLY stretch it. But I bet some people still bitch.
PyramidHat
> BJL
01/18/2018 at 23:56 |
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Interesting thought. There’s a company in the U.K. that remanufactures Piper Cherokees and sells them for $175K...about 1/2 the price of a new Warrior III. So there is a market for refurbished classics...
Tristan
> BJL
01/19/2018 at 00:05 |
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No. I wouldn’t buy a square body Chevy for $30,000... I also wouldn’t buy a 2018 Chevy for $30,000. I would, however, buy a $4,500-or-less square body Chevy and an LMC catalog.
adamftw
> Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
01/19/2018 at 06:27 |
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I’d rather spend an hour or so with a trained ear and a couple specialty tools to diagnose an issue than buy a $2300 code scanner just for it to tell me VIN-locked body ECU-3 has failed and needs replacement. Replacement that can only be done by the dealer and the part costs $1200 with a $500 programming fee.